Liverpool to become the new Chelsea? What would Wenger say?
Dubai Holdings, the Dubai state investment arm is once again looking to buy Liverpool Football Club, this time it could be succesful, but what would it mean to the club?
Liverpool fans, perhaps with just a touch of jealousy, have derided Chelsea’s recent achievements suggesting that they have merely “bought the title” with Roman’s riches. They say the club has no history or no honour because they went out and bought their success.
But what would happen if Liverpool suddenly had access to funds that would enable them to compete with the Chesleas of this world? Would they continue spending £5m - £10m on bargain basement strikers like Bellamy or Crouch or would they start shopping at the Harrod’s of the football world and try on Torres or Adriano for size?
Make no mistake, while on the face of it Dubai Holdings is an investment company in it for profit, its also in it for the glory. In Dubai, the term “state run” means “owned by the Royal family”, and there is nothing the Royal family like better than winning (just look at how much they have “invested” in horse racing), so they will gladly follow up their purchase with an embarassment of riches, trying to buy the Premiership title, the Champions League and even the lowly FA cup.
Arsene Wenger will have a field day, churning out all his old jingoistic comments about English clubs needing to be English, only this time it will be against Liverpool instead of Chelsea or Man United. Wonder if Arsene will start to feel a little isolated being the only “top four” club shackled to an English purse?
And what will those legions of loyal Liverpool fans, most of whom have never been to a game in their lives, make of all this? Will they turn their backs on the club? Will they shun any acheivements with cries of “foul”, “unfair”, “we’re just buying the title”?
I doubt it, because lets face it, although Dubai Holdings might be the newest Glory Hunters on the block, the legions of plastic Liverpool fans were there long before them…..
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161 opinions for Liverpool to become the new Chelsea? What would Wenger say?
Terje A. J
Oct 23, 2006 at 2:16 pm
Wenger has showed all you hacks that you don’t need money to win titles. Compared to how much money that is avaliable for transfer in clubs like Chelsea and ManU, I’m more impressed with what Moyes have done with Everton than what Mourinho have done to Chelsea.
Julian
Oct 23, 2006 at 2:17 pm
if arsene wenger has proved one thing in his stupendously successful 10 years at arsenal it’s that you don’t need sackfulls of money to make great teams. i doubt very much that he feels shackled by arsenal’s english purse. i should think he’s actually very proud of the fact that the club is self-sustaining.
Jamie
Oct 23, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Don’t need them, don’t need you!
pete
Oct 23, 2006 at 2:33 pm
Not sure I fully understand the point - all successful clubs have fans around the world who’ve never been to a game ( except Chelsea who are desperately trying to get some ).If Liverpool get the riches to compete with Chelsea then guess what, we’ve got the history to go with them because we ARE a big club already. And by the way I go to loads of games……
Sack the Juggler
Oct 23, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Pete, glad to hear from a true supporter mate, but my point was really whether the gibes aimed at Chelsea are the jealous rants of plastic fans, or a true hatred of money dominating the game? If its the latter then surely the Liverpool fans would stay away in droves, but somehow I suspect that wont be the case….
CHRISPY
Oct 23, 2006 at 2:46 pm
You have not got a clue, take your trousers down so we can hear you better..
Sack the Juggler
Oct 23, 2006 at 2:50 pm
Terje - Have to agree with you about Moyes, but lets face it all the G14 clubs have had the benefit of more money that the Evertons of this world.
Whether the money comes from a Russian Businessman, a bent Juventus referee or by sneaking in the back door of the CL when someone poisoned half the Spurs team, more money equals more success (unless you’re Newcastle of course).
Sack the Juggler
Oct 23, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Chrispy - I wear these trousers due to my religious beliefs (but I wear the veil just for fun!)
SG
Oct 23, 2006 at 2:57 pm
“…but my point was really whether the gibes aimed at Chelsea are the jealous rants of plastic fans, or a true hatred of money dominating the game…”
Fine. Why then have a dig at Wenger by saying his comments on the matter would be “jingoistic”? Do you even know what that word means?
People don’t hate Chelsea for their lack of history - they hate them for their arrogance, lack of class, and their sudden “emergence” as a superclub coinciding perfectly with the arrival of the oil money.
If Liverpool suddenly had an open chequebook to buy whoever they wanted, do you really think that fans would respect any honours that followed?
How difficult is it to win the league with a squad of 30 international players and a team worth £250m…?
Sack the Juggler
Oct 23, 2006 at 3:10 pm
SG - yes I know what Jingoism means -I went to a good school that taught us such big words, and how they were derived, I expect you went to a comprehensive yourself….
as for how difficult is it to win the league with a huge squad of overpaid, overpriced players? why not ask Rafa?
Laura
Oct 23, 2006 at 3:19 pm
STJ, who do you propose ‘poisoned’ the Spurs team? Are you pointing the finger at AW?!
Sack the Juggler
Oct 23, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Laura - that bit was just to wind up sussex spur and sammy nelson pants who seem to have gotten into a debate about the subject - but i must admit i did find it funny…
Laura
Oct 23, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Poor old Spurs. i did feel for them, food poisoning is nasty.
danny
Oct 23, 2006 at 3:47 pm
spurs actually didn’t have any food poisioning- it was a virus bought in by one their own players. wenger has done a great deal with limited resources and if everyone is dead set against spending money to win titles, does that mean all neutrals would prefer to see arsenal win it as they have spent less than any of the other big 4? not too mention they play football ‘as it was meant to be played’. how come i doubt this will be the sentiment expressed by most others?
Pete
Oct 23, 2006 at 3:55 pm
Liverpool didn’t dominate till the late sixties/early seventies when they were bouyed with cash from the Moores family via the national rise in popularity of the Football Pools. All these Liverpool supporters moaning that Chelsea have bought success should look a little deeper into their clubs “History” they loved to boast about (Yet many have no clue about) to see that they did the self same thing !
Sack the Juggler
Oct 23, 2006 at 4:00 pm
Danny - to be honest Arsenal looked awesome against Reading on Sunday, but part of me kept thinking, that Reading were allowing them to play that way, which may be partly jealousy (on my part) or it may be partly from knowing that there are two sides to football - as our American cousin’s would say; offensive and defensive, and while Arsenal were very good at stopping Reading in the middle, Reading were not so good at stopping Arsenal.
I know that takes away somewhat from Arsenal’s ability and creativeness in front of goal, but i do feel that Reading allowed Arsenal that space, something which I doubt Arsenal would get against the likes of Man U (even though you beat them), Chelsea, Liverpool, or even Villa / Everton.
Having said that, it was an awesome display and great to watch (unless you’re a Reading fan!)
Mr B
Oct 23, 2006 at 4:01 pm
i noticed that with all that money spent you still have not won the CL like the great liverpool or Manu teams of the past even aresenal have got to the final and im sure they dominated the league by going undefeated…when you really analyse it you lot havent even done a decent double Carling cup and Premire league now that is a crappy double
Sack the Juggler
Oct 23, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Pete - fully agree, the trouble is that over time people forget this, and once they’re in an unassailable position its hard to dislodge them, unless another club comes along and does the same.
Sack the Juggler
Oct 23, 2006 at 4:39 pm
Mr B - that just sounds like sour grapes mate - what would Liverpool give to win the Premiership? For all their success its the one trophy that they have failed to win time and time again. Would they sell their souls to win it (as they’ve accused Chelsea of doing)? we’ll see.
By the way, I haven’t spend any money and my team has probably spent even less. But before you slate Chelsea for not winning the Champions league, remember that Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal have been at the top for many years, Chelsea have only just got there, give them time and I’m sure they’ll make “five times” look ordinary
stynet
Oct 23, 2006 at 4:51 pm
Sack the Jug - Liverpool fans would tell them to sod off and leave their club alone. If you’ve once tried to win the title on your own without a rich man buying it for you, you would never want it any other way. You have never tried this of course, but I’m sure even Chelsea fans above the age of 75 (the only ones who remember it) would agree. Or maybe you actually do get so desperate after 50 years that you are prepared to sell out on you pride. Don’t think I’ll be old enough to ever find out…
Sack the Juggler
Oct 23, 2006 at 4:54 pm
Stynet - sterling response, hope you don’t mind if I throw it back in your face in a few years time after your all lining the streets to welcome home the Emirate and his new team Liverpool’s first Premiership title….
Rich
Oct 23, 2006 at 5:20 pm
Mr. Juggler. You are right. I’m a Liverpool fan, and we would give anything to win the title. Its also been said we have highly paid players under-performing. This is also true. And looking back at the history of the club someone somewhere along the line somebody pumped their money into the club which would have helped us along the way.
But lets agree on something else here.
The reason why so many of us are irritated by Chelsea is because they have become so dominant over night. Now I personally don’t resent Chelsea (that much) for having all these squillions of pounds to spend on players. What I resent is the arrogance with which some of these players swagger about (manager included) as if every other team should bow their heads down in respect for them. Mourinho seems perplexed as to why he doesn’t get the respect he perhaps earnt at Porto. I’m perplexed as to why he can’t fathom it out. Yes he’s a good manager. Yes he has a good team. But nobody is EVER going to respect him because he feels he desrves it. He behaves like a spoilt child sometimes. A bit like Kevin or Perry. He inherited a strong team as it was left by Ranieri - but never title contenders.
The greatest insight into the problem with Chelsea is shown on every Chelsea fans face and in their voice (or lack of) every week. Chelsea are not a team who have had to do battle and struggle to achieve what they have. The fans have not been taken on a journey where a cabinet holding few significant trophies has been built on and earnt the same way many other clubs have. The fans have come to expect to win the title before even before the first ball has been kicked for the season. My argument isn’t whether they will or won’t, my argument is that by putting the club in such a place where the fans are suddenly expecting the success, where does the enjoyment in watching your team play go? Sometimes passion comes through watching your team being dumped on its ass every now and then. Its what makes winning your next game all the sweeter.
Liverpool, Arsenal, and yes - even Man Utd have earnt their place (sorry - almost choked there). Of course the investment has been there to help them along the way. But the success these teams have had has attracted a heck of alot of it. And its never been to the extent where its put them so so far above even their nearest rivals.
And hence why Chelsea want the Champions League trophy more than any other. Because they are having to fight it out. Because the fans are not expecting this trophy so much as hoping for it. Because they have the chance to do their bit as fans to perhaps lift their team when their team goes down however many goals. By singing like they don’t know when they’re beaten. By being the 12th man.
Now I know I’ve kinda rambled on a little here. But I think you would agree I may have just hit the nail on the head here. Chelsea have not enjoyed winning two titles on the trot quite as much as perhaps they should have.
Sack the Juggler
Oct 23, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Rich - I have to agree, that is one of the most unbiased, complete and logical arguments as to why other fans dislike Chelsea. Well done, I like it.
You’ve hit the nail squarely on the head, although I think that probably you’re last sentence sums it all up, Chelsea probably haven’t enjoyed winning the premiership as much as they should have, and for all the reasons you’ve given above i really think that Man United will win the Premiership this year, they are far more hungry that Chelsea are, and perhaps as you say, Chelsea will be more focussed on the CL.
Rich
Oct 23, 2006 at 5:33 pm
I thank you.
I am now bowing and leaving the building.
While I’m ahead.
Seamus
Oct 23, 2006 at 6:50 pm
The old saying Money can’t buy you success has well and truly been turned on it’s head recently. But then again, is it so recent? Real Madrid and AC Milan have been forces in European football for years and years, both of these clubs have seemingly unlimited funds available for transfer fees. So really is Chelsea (and possibly Liverpool, if Dubai buys in) doing anything different. As a Liverpool fan I would welcome money being brought into the club, not just for players but also for the new stadium.
Again the argument about slary caps comes into play. This system has been in play in Rugby League for a while, both at home and in Australia and New Zealand. When you have salary caps you cannot afford to buy all the best players and keep them in the reserves, you could buy a couple of top class players and have the rest of the team as good players. That is when winning a major trophy means something more to the club, the players and the fans.
As a Liverpool fan, I am sick that we are not winning everything, every year, but that is what you have to live with in football. If you kow before the season starts that only 1 team is going to win the league, you know how boring it gets. Just look at formula one, Schumacher won 5 years on the trot and they had to change the rules to make it more exciting.
Tony
Oct 23, 2006 at 7:07 pm
Well said Rich,fantastic post
Londis23
Oct 23, 2006 at 9:00 pm
To be honest, investment at Liverpool is overdue and needed for the team to take the step up. You can argue that Wenger has worked wonders at Arsenal but they don’t have a massive squad - one or two key players injured and they aren’t the same. Also, Arsenal look brilliant when given space….but it’s a different story when you block that inside left channel that Henry likes to run into.
I don’t like all this money coming into the game but its reality and Liverpool need it to attract better players and to pay for the new ground. In effect, to keep up with the Joneses of Chelski, Utd and Arsenal.
I think in the near future we will see a change in Arsenal transfer policy - with a few big names coming in for big money (eg Ribery). Liverpool have to follow suit or risk being left behind for the forseeable future.
In the meantime, some of the ‘pool players need to start earning their wages and show some passion and desire.
SammyNelsonsPants
Oct 23, 2006 at 11:14 pm
lol, over the whole thng. C’mon STJ - Reading let us play that way? They were blown apart, and couldnt STOP us playing that way. A better team, such as Man U CAN stop us ( although they don’t always DO) They left space, cos when they got tight, pace and passing exposed their back 4.
Its called Wengerball……
Wingston75
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:18 am
shit article, trying to provoke a reaction. utter bilge…
»»Arsene Knows««
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 7:42 am
Londis, I must admit it is a feature of the game now, but perhaps it always has been, its just that Chelsea have taken it to another level than the Jack Walkers or Dave Whelan’s of this world.
Laura
Oct 24, 2006 at 7:48 am
Londis - the key thing is Arsenla have ahad apkay players injured already this season and the new bread of Wenger kids are starting to really cement their place. This idea of Arsenal having a small squad is a little ridiculous now, this is the strongest squad I can remember Arsenal having. Especially when you think we’ve got Diaby, Lauren, Clichy, Senderos, Eboue, Ljungberg and Baptista out injured and ready to come back.
That is why for my money there can be no more excuses. Arsenal have a squad strong enough to compete with everyone (excepting maybe Chelsea who’s squad is on a different planet). I really can’t see Arsene spending money on big name ’stars’, it isn’t really his way and would stand in the way of the developing talent. If we bought Ribery now, what does that say to Freddie, Tomas, Alex, Theo etc?
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 7:54 am
Sammy Nelson Pants - I know that Liverpool have done badly on their travels and Arsenal have done amazingly well in their last five games, but other than United, your run has been against Sheffield United, Watford, Charlton and Reading.
Wenger ball looks good when it works, but when you are shut down, you tend to get frustrated and make mistakes.
Having said that, I still enjoyed the game at the weekend. The football was glorious for most of the time. Wenger has said that the building of the team is still work in progress, but I hope its not too far from being the finished artical, otherwise none of us will be able to compete with you!
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 7:57 am
wingston - it must be hard for you to see the big picture when you have such a small screen…
Laura
Oct 24, 2006 at 8:25 am
I don’t necessarily agree - Arsenal don’t suffer the way they did at the beginning of last season when teams try to close us down. Now when we play Bolton, Blackburn etc we’ll play 4-5-1, allowing us a little more freedom in midfield. Now that we have shown it works against Juve, Real, Villareal, United, I see us using it away from home in those tough games.
Especially now e have a ‘plan B’ in Ade, I think we can if necessary play a different type of Wengerball
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 8:26 am
Seamus and Londis - I’d share your sentiments, Liverpool could benefit hugely from a big cash injection - just like any other club. I have to say though, whilst I’m sure in the short term I’d be all smiles if it were to happen and we were suddenly bidding for the very top class players, I’m not sure I’d particularly want it to happen. And I’ll tell you why. Our friends at Chelsea are currently basking in the success of back to back titles thanks largely to Abramovich. And although we him at the matches having a good old laugh when his team are winning, I think we all have to remember he’s a businessman. He’s a businessman with however many billions of pounds behind him, and yet one of his many companies - Chelsea - are currently somewhere in the region of £130 million in debt. Now I know most clubs are in debt, alot of the biggest clubs are (who knows how the hell Real Madrid are still around with their debts, its quite astonishing). But I wonder if the club keeps running at a loss, how long will this billionaire continue his interest in the club? Signs are he is probably gonna be sticking around for a while yet judging from how many fingers he has in all those pies, using his portfolio of companies to front aqcuisitions, whether they be Russian football clubs, or companies representing footballers who rather than negotiating FOR a player - they are negotiating for themselves because they OWN the player (I’m of course referring to our Argentinian friends who arrived at West Ham). The scale to which Abromavich seems to be gaining control in world football probably isn’t quite evident to us all right now, but I’d bet a pint there’s a heck of alot going on we just ain’t seeing yet.
My point is perhaps its better to not be in such a position where one party/businessman is so easily able to pull the rug from under your feet. I guess there’s advantages and disadvantages all the way.
andy - Who dares wins
Oct 24, 2006 at 8:38 am
As a fan i’m torn if liverpool do get taken over… as a plus, we will have money, to be able to get rid of the dead wood and bring in class players like we deserve and challenge for the title year in year out like we should be doing now. But on a negative side everything that we win will be tainted by cries of… “too much money”. If an investment did go ahead i hope that only a few players would come in… players that we needed to improve the squad… Like Torres, who i saw play in spain… he was phenominal. or joaquin… players that will add rather than take away from the liverpool brand of foreign talent mixed with pure scouse blood. I hope even if a deal does go through then players who define liverpool like charrager and gerrard remain.
Harry
Oct 24, 2006 at 8:50 am
Rich livepool supporter. Focus on your team and stop moaning about Chelsea. JM is one the best coaches around. JM does not need your approval. JM has respect of many. Many clubs are after his signiture. Chelsea has earned his EPL crown. According to your argument ” where the fans are suddenly expecting the success” so Liverpool is getting dump every week, so enjoy it.
Mark Hobbs
Oct 24, 2006 at 8:58 am
STJ - That’s a real weak post today. Absolutley nothing in it at all. Liverpool fans don’t say Chelsea have no history or no honour because they went out and bought their success. They say it because Chelsea have no history or no honour. The community shield (which raises money for charity) was a disgrace on their part. Noone turned up. The semi-final of the FA Cup last year was also a joke. I was there. They had no banners and no songs. Liverpool sang all the way through and filled the place. ‘Plastic’ Liverpool fans take over every cup final stadium they go to. I was amongst the 1 million ‘plastic’ liverpool fans who welcomed the team back after their fifth European Cup in Liverpool’s City Centre. I saw Chelsea’s open top bus tour on Sky Sports news. It was embarrassing. It was probably only normal London passers-by that were out there. Chelsea have the finances and squad of a big club, but they have to earn their history. Until they act like champions they will never be treated like champions.
To be honest though - I’m failing to see what your point is other than an uncalled for attack on Liverpool (yet again I add). All fans from all clubs welcome investment. What’s your point?
And since when was Arsene Wenger shackled?
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 8:59 am
Andy - I’d agree with you there. Whatever the deal players like Gerrard and Carragher are what the team needs to be built around. This isn’t stubborn loyalty which prevents us from developing and improving as a team. On the contrary - these are the players who will lead the team, who will give the other a kick up the arse when needed and invoke the passion and singing when needed from the fans. The top four teams have always had that backbone to the team, whether its Neville, Giggs and Scholes at Man Utd, Terry, Lampard and J. Cole at Chelsea or Henry, Fabregas and dare I say it - Walcott.
These players all have one thing in common - motivation. There are not many match days of the year when you can’t depend on these players to drag the rest of them behind kicking and screaming. Gerrard and Carragher definately have to stay. Hypia has seen his best days, and I can’t see him staying around for anything much longer than the rest of this season. Don’t get me wrong - he’s been a true Anfield great. But he’s not up to it anymore. And for God’s sake - I hope Garcia goes. I’m Liverpool through and through. Half spanish to boot! But if I see him starting in midfield again I think i’ll have to chop one of my limbs off. Just to replace the pain.
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 9:04 am
Mark Hobbs - well if you were on of the million (why does no-one question that figure when there are only 600,000 people in Merseyside?) fans who welcomed Liverpool home then you can’t be plastic then can you .
I must admit, that most of the fans who do go to the game are not plastic, I was just referring to those who “support” them from the armchair.
By the way, I do like Liverpool, and some of my best mates were in Istanbul for the game. Liking true fans is not the same as criticising plastic fans for their inane comments.
And before you talk about other fans having no honour, what about the Liverpool fans singing their Munich songs at Old Trafford at the weekend?
Laura
Oct 24, 2006 at 9:14 am
The horrible fact of the matter is that there are ‘plastic’ supporters to all the top teams. As Liverpool were incredibly successful in the ’80’s these plastic fans who live in the Home Counties and London (probably never been to Anfield in their lives) are now in their ’30’s and are essentially glory hunters. The same can be seen with United, Arsenal and now Clesea. Anyone seen an ‘old’ Chelsea shirt recently? They all appear to be shiney and new.
The fact is that the plastic Lvierpool fans are a little more vocal as they feel they have been ’supporting’ their Club for long enough to vindicate their arm chair support. I grew up hating the Pool becuase everyone I grew up with was a supporter and growing up in North London that was incredibly frustrating until about 1989 :)
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 9:14 am
Harry. Go back to bed. You’re not saying anything of value. And you’re obviously sleepwalking or something.
I’m not moaning at all. I’m merely stating the facts. I haven’t ‘bigged up’ Liverpool more so than Chelsea. Mourinho is the biggest whinger in the Premiership - fact. The manner in which he’s treid to blame Reading for just about everything the last week apart is shocking. I was half expecting him to blame them for world war two at one stage.
What happened to your keeper was an accident, a very serious one, but it was an accident. And for him to then come out and say the keepers life was in danger because Reading did not provide the support they should have is ludicrous. I can understand a manager looking out for his own - but Mourinho is a drama queen. He loves to do so much for the media and promote his self image. He’s self-involved. And he doesn’t have the respect of lots of people. He has the respect of many a blinkered Chelsea fan - not many other people though. And I can guarantee you there’s not many Premiereship managers who respect him either. You see no-one can argue about what trophies he’s won. I’m certainly not. But we can argue all day long about who respects him. And if you’re so accurate about everyone respecting him -why is it him whingeing that no-one does?
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 9:15 am
Andy / Rich - part of me wants to see Liverpool get the money as I want to see how good a manager Jose really is. Would he still win the Premiership without the benefit of being the biggest spender? But the other part of me thinks that it will just hasten the slippery slope down to a European Super League, and we’ll have an American system, with first round draft picks, etc.
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 9:21 am
Jugg - I know what you mean. Don’t get me wrong - I do think he’s a quality manager. He knows what he’s doing. He proved that before he came to Chelsea. Success and respect just don’t come hand in hand though do they?
I hope we don’t move into a european super league at any stage myself, even if my team are one of the G14 members. I don’t like any ideas where other teams can be excluded because of where they come from or how much money they have.
Laura
Oct 24, 2006 at 9:23 am
spot on Rich. A super LEague will furhter alienate fans who are already struggling to cope with the financial implications of following your club.
Seamus
Oct 24, 2006 at 9:35 am
STJ, although I do not condone the Liverpool fans singing the Munich songs at the weekend, where is the mention of the Man U fans writing things about the Hillsborough disaster on motorway bridges on the way to the ground. Retaliation is not a nice thing but you can be driven to it sometimes.
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 9:46 am
Seamus - the man U fans were as bad in the stadium mate, they were singing Heysel songs, but it was hard to say who started it, but those who joined in should have known better.
Mark Hobbs
Oct 24, 2006 at 10:12 am
STJ - You contradict yourself - you say you only dislike ‘plastic’ liverpool fans and not ‘real’ liverpool fans who go to the match but then you slate the ‘real’ fans who went to the Utd match!! You obviously don’t like Liverpool because you keep having a pop at their manager, players and fans.
What about our Champions League exit last year to Benfica. We got beaten 3 nil on aggregate and never looked like scoring. At most clubs that would have resulted in masses pouring out 10 minutes early but the rendition of you’ll never walk alone was as good as it ever was. And the Benfica fans were delighted when the Anfield crowd threw scarves to them as mementos after the match. I can’t see that happening at Chelski.
The lack of dignity at their club starts with the owner and goes all the way down to their whingeing manager and cheating players. That’s what’s disliked - not their spending power. If they signed nice guys like Ronaldhino or Thierry Henry and played attractive football, then we would applaud them like we do Arsenal (the reason Thierry Henry says he loves anfield by the way). But they sign the likes of Drogba and Robben who thrive on dragging the game through the mud with their diving and provocation. And their manager defends and encourages their behaviour and shows a real lack of dignity when he refuses to give anyone any credit when they beat them. They need to address that before thet get any respect.
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 10:27 am
Mark, some of those very same fans who were singing in Instanbul when the team were 3-0 down (and so helped the team come back) were also at the match on Sunday, they were slating their own fans for getting involved with the Munich singing.
Are you saying they don’t like Liverpool either? Don’t make the mistake of treating any criticism as an attack on the club. If someone has done something wrong it is wrong no matter who highlights it.
I disagree with your diving comments, we’ve seen players from all clubs diving, including Liverpool. I think that Rich has hit the nail on the head here. Yes there is some jealousy against Chelsea, but the main reason that Chelsea’s titles aren’t respected the way they should be is that they expect to win it, its not something that comes difficult to them, there is none of the heartache in failing when you are so close, and therefore there is not the same amount of joy as when beating your peers to the title.
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 10:32 am
Mark Hobbs - You realy have no idea as to the depth of Chelsea’s support and you’re talking utter rubbish about Chelsea’s parade and the semi final. I was at both and don’t have to rely on Pictures from “Sky Sports” to form my opinion.
As for having no history You like most Liverpool fans that bleat on endlessly about “You ain’t got no history” Do you even know you own clubs history? Liverpool were propped up by the Moores family money for years (Untill the Lottery killed the Football Pools and with it the income) and in essence the Chelsea of their time able to buy the top players of the day to “Buy Success” still with your selective Scouse memories you choose to ignore the FACTS.
As for support you would expect Liverpool to have a bigger local appeal as you only have two choices in the top flight up there. London clubs have to compete with around 6 others for support, which contrary to your belief is usually handed down from father to child. Chelsea do have some new plastic fans but no more so than You, Manure or Arsenal picked up when doing well.
Mark Hobbs
Oct 24, 2006 at 10:55 am
So lets get this straight Pete. Chelsea have got history and Liverpool haven’t?
What are you saying?
You’re a bit touchy about finances aren’t you. What’s Moores money got to do with my argument? Chelsea have no history and don’t act like champions on or off the field. They are my arguments and you have not responded to any.
As for being at the semi-final, if you were there then where was your banner? Where was your voice? Even Joe Cole and Drogba were encouraging your lot to sing. What about the Community Shield point? It seems to me that you’re the one who’s being selective - not me.
You haven’t got a history - by that we mean a succession of titles. That’s why we follow up that line with 5 european cups and 18 leagues - that’s what we call history. Until you can compete with that sort of success (which you may do eventually), then we will continue to sing that song which obviously annoyes you.
zach
Oct 24, 2006 at 10:58 am
there are some good sentiments here. i’m a liverpool fan and the two main problems i have with chelski are their arrogance, as other people have pointed out and the way they throw their money about
when you were a kid and you have to save up to buy that toy you really want (go with it for a moment) you get way more pleasure out of it. if you get to the shop and the rich kid next door has bought the last one you feel pretty rubbish, especially when he didn’t really want it in the first place
chelski are guilty of this, look at swp and duff amoungst other… they specifically bought these players to stop other teams getting them
also, due to the cash they throw around, just the mention of chelski in any transfer negotiation pushes up the price of the given player, even with real madrid and ac milan this wasn’t really the case, players when to those clubs because of the qudos associated with them…
i know that bellamy, pennant and kewellmaybe weren’t/aren’t on chelskis radar but they reportedly went to liverpool as they where the team they supported as kids…
you also have to look at the wage structure of the clubs, chelski can offer any given player £130+ grand a week, reportedly they have 6 or 7 player who get £100k++, that probably accounts for the same amount of players as the rest of the prem altogether!!!
if liverpool get the investment i’ll still support them and cheer them on, but i won’t be naive enough or arrogant enough not to realise and agree when people say that we probably wouldn’t have got there without it, which i have hear many chelski fans say…
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 11:05 am
Zach - I hear what you’re saying mate, and I’m sad to say that I suspect what we are seeing at Chelsea is the start of something new, rather than a one off. I suspect that as the game gets bigger and bigger then it will attract more Abramovich’s to enable the other clubs to compete with Chelsea. At that point there will probably be 4 or 5 top clubs all on the same level and it will kind of revert to saving your money to buy that toy each year, but they will be shopping at Harrods rather than WH Smiths.
DEMES VASILIOU
Oct 24, 2006 at 11:12 am
ARSENE SAID THAT ? THE MAN WHO PLAYS IN PREMIERSHIP WITH 1 ENGLISH PLAYER ? EXCUSE ME I GTG AND LAUGH MY *** OUT
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 11:34 am
Mark Hobbs - Re the banners at that shyte hole in Cardiff Do you need them to be a big team? The only reason you lot have them is to try and impress people that you can spell:-)
On a serious note several Chelsea banners were taken down at that game because they obscured the FA’s precious advertising. A friend of mine raised the point with the steward that the ones at the Liverpool end hadn’t been taken down and was told to Feck off!
As for what the Moores family has to do with your point you stated “no honour because they went out and bought their success” yet you won’t admit that Liverpool done the same thing to get your “history” Does that make Chelsea any worse than Liverpool? Our wealth is new and it will take time to build an honours list the length of Liverpool’s but to try and dismiss Chelsea’s as dishonourable and Liverpool’s as kosher shows you to be a hypocrite in the extreme.
Oh and I thought Liverpool were going to be title contenders this season or so half their players, Houlier and most of the Scouse fans I have the unfortunate luck in knowing kept banging on about before this season started. Looks like another season without the one prize you can’t win in modern day football, The hardest one that runs over 40 odd games not 4 or 5 rounds.
As for whoever claiming Chelsea fans are all arrogant, How arrogant to boasting how many Cups you’ve won in the past at any given opportunity?
john
Oct 24, 2006 at 11:37 am
liverpool this, liverpool that. change the bleeding record eh.
Gav
Oct 24, 2006 at 11:48 am
Top four club? last time i checked u were 11th!
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 11:50 am
Opps when I said Houlier I meant Benitez !
Niekobe
Oct 24, 2006 at 11:58 am
Regardless of what anyone says we all know that Chelsea are a powerful team. Mourinho is the best manager in the premiership and among the top three in the world. Stop being jealous, it really is pitiful. Liverpool won the champions league and all credit should be given to the team and the manager because that was a magnificent campaign. Give Chelsea the credit they deserve, stop moaning about the money and go out and beat them on the football pitch. You need to worry about the 11 points you have now attained in the league rather than Chelsea and there team of superstars. We as Chelsea fans respect other teams but I guess no one respects new money. Having said that, let it be known once and for all, we don’t really care about your respect. The success is sweet and the more we are hated the sweeter it gets. We’re loving it!!
Mark Hobbs
Oct 24, 2006 at 11:59 am
Pete - I think you need to take up reading classes. I never ’stated’ that at all. In fact the total opposite. I even specifically listed the reasons why you lack honour (diving / cheating / moaning) but you obviously chose to ignore them and start banging on about something else. Typical Chelsea really. Ignorance is bliss.
Houllier went two years ago as well mate.
‘That shyte hole in Cardiff’. Nice opinion to have regarding the community shield match (raises money for charity).
I’m glad you decided to but into our conversation because you totally backed up my argument. Cheers.
Niekobe
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:10 pm
Hobbs- What’s the difference between diving and time wasting, taking a free kick from the wrong position other than where the foul occurred or taking a throw in in an advanced position other than where the ball went out? They are all acts done to gain an advantage in the game. No one team has more divers than the other. Its funny to note how no one seems to see Gerrard when he dives. No one is pointing out his bad form as they are pointing out that of Lampard. The bias in this country is astounding. Chelsea are not perfect, the manager is not perfect, the players are not perfect, but who on this earth is perfect? No one mate. All managers moan. I am happy that mouringho is a bad loser for a wise man once said that a good loser is a frequent loser. The balance of power has shifted. Get to grips with it!
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:12 pm
Mark Hobbs - I appologise I have re-read the post and took the wrong end of the stick on that score.
I amended the Houlier bit as soon as I read the post back and saw my mistake.
As for “That shyte hole in Cardiff’ I have been there on several occasions and never had a decent view of the pitch yet, As for Charity Chelsea support several charities throughout the year why should they need a special occassion to do so or be held to ransom at an overated friendly game that no clubs realy wan’t to play in (And before you start look at the teams fielded by the likes of Arsenal and Man U in recent seasons to see how seriously it’s taken)?
Londis23
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:28 pm
Laura - what I was referring to was that Arsenal have very few match winners. You must see that if Henry is missing, they aren’t the same side. Yes, still good, but not the same.
The way to play against Arsenal is to block the runs of the forwards and force the wingers wide so they have to cross - as Arsenal score very few headers. Reading failed in that respect, as did Watford the week previous.
I also said that Liverpool need investment - I didn’t mean on the scale of Abramovich, just enough to get some new players maybe and finance the stadium.
This is interesting too:
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/article.php?id=2378418
Liverpool seem to be an easy target for the media. If it’s not myths about zonal marking - it’s the Gerrard to the centre debate. It snowballs and then you get spice boy Redknapp saying Gerrard is going to leave……..only winning can stop this I know, but the media thrive on stuff like this.
zach
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:36 pm
“mourinho is one of the best three managers in the world”… there is absolutley no basis for this argument, why is he? what has he done that is so much better than wenger, ferguson (much as it pains me to say it!!!) capello etc he took porto to the champions league in a season of freak results and won the league in portugal a few times, took over a pretty good team from ranieri and won the league here twice having £250m pumped into the team, whilst not winning the cl… i’m not saying he is rubbish but that is a ridiculous statement…
in regards to song about winning many thing… i think we would get much greater critism if we didn’t sing during matches, just coz you can’t think up witty responces!!!
i was in bordeaux last week for the cl game and chatted with a number of thie fans who said that we were the best that they had met…
it is one thing to fervently support your team and take the mickey out of the opposition, it is another when you are so arrogant that you cannot accept critism, the fact that a fair few of lampards goal are deflections is true, deal with it…every time anything goes against chelski the world is a horrible little place bar that corner of sw london that is heaven and the rest of the nasty people should leave you alone…
even the mancs can accept jibes coz they have been there and had to take them, they come with success (whatever the means of that coming to a club) and once again goes to prove a lack of class and history you have…
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:38 pm
Mark - for you to make a point that us Liverpool fans go on and on about our history only proves how proud we are of our club.
I quite often watch my team sat right next to a gruff voiced chunky skin head of a Chelsea fan. He’s great. He’s a friend. We take the p**s out of each other quite regularly. But when we sit down in all seriousness we can talk about our differences quite objectively. Namely - we both recognise certain facts - and please tell me if I miss something out here. Liverpool were supported by the Moores family - AFTER they had claimed their first league titles. Back to back I do believe, and the first team to do so. Now for you to compare the kind of investment the Moores made into the club back then with the kind of investment made now by Abramovich is nothing short of pathetic. Abramovich’s billions have put Chelsea head and shoulders and probably a good chunk of the rest of the body above not only Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal - but Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juve and any of the other major european forces you’d care to mention. No other team has EVER had that kind of investment. Yes teams have dominated, but they’ve reached that position, earnt that position THEN attracted the investment to keep them there.
Again - we come back to the earlier question of why Chelsea are resented as much as they do. I’ve never known a team to be able to claim they will create their success to the same level as the other team in the manner Chelsea fans do. Yeah we wave our flags and boast about our teams and no doubt we go a little overboard sometimes when our passion clouds our judgement. But for Chelsea to have won two titles and think that they are all of a sudden a truly great english football team because of what they are yet to win is…… laughable quite frankly.
The reason why The reason why we ‘harp on about it’ is because we can talk of ‘glory days’, whether we’re talking about winning the league or in Europe, whether its 20 or 30 years ago or two years ago. And the key word here is glory. You’ve taken two titles, and you, the Chelsea fans, have had no glory, because Chelsea were tipped by everyone from day one to win the league because of their money, and everyone was right. It was no surprise to you or anyone else. That’s why you’re all so defensive and miffed. You didn’t get the glory. Chelsea winning the title was like a bad shag for the supporters. Once it came it was just the biggest anti-climax.
Laura
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:41 pm
Londis, arsenal are playing a different type of game this year. Possibly our best performance of the season was without Henry as, as much as I hate to admit it about my captain, he does tend to shackle the likes of Freddie and Alex, who have far more freedom playing with Ade or Robin.
Henry is in my opinion the best player in the world (biased though I am) but he does tend to dictate the way we play. Perhaps the younger players still remain in too much awe of him. But I honestly believe that Arsenal do not only have one ‘match winner’ as performances this season have tended to prove.
Arsenal do score few headers but Titi is already on two this season so maybe with the emergence of Eboue, we’ve finally got someone who can cross the ball for someone to get their head on it.
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:42 pm
Rich - I think you’ll find Chelsea have won 3 titles not 2 or are you saying the first one in 1955 not count?
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:46 pm
Pete - sorry. Forgot that one. Maybe you do have some history after all.
Maybe….
SammyNelsonsPants
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:49 pm
Laura…agreed on 4-5-1 and Plan B. Working so far….
STJ, the fixture list did give us an easier than average run the last few weeks, but that happens at least once every season, and I’ll take the lucky break that it came for us early this year. I suspect we will also do well as the fixtures toughen up. As I mentioned in relation to Crouch, you can only judge/ play whats in front of you.
I quite enjoy Chelsea games. The “attack, attack, attackattackattack ” thing always makes me giggle. But the fans arent respectful, nor respectable. They’re a bunch of spitting, snarling chavs, every time I’ve seen them ( twice, at Highbury in recent years)
Charlton fans are lovely, Liverpool unremittingly passionate ( and if they’re plastic, they’re also a bit off the pace. The plastics wear blue these days). Yes, the Man U games are a bit gladitorial, but if you really want a reminder of the mad bad 70’s, you want to go see your team play Chelsea…
Petes point about the “over-rated friendly that no-one wants to play” makes the point here perfectly. Sure, I’ll look at Arsenals team in recent CC matches. AFC have always used the CC to showcase new players, and new signings, amongst a team mostly composed of first team fixtures. In 2002, for example, we introduced world cup winner Gilberto Silva at that game, and he scored… the CC is a historic fixture, and a day out for the fans who go ( I never have). Fans of clubs with history respect it… but Chav$ki? no.
Mark Hobbs
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:54 pm
Niekobe - Gerrard does dive now and again, I admit, but he NEVER feigns injury. The amount of times that Drogba and Robben go down and do 3 or 4 rolls holding their faces after they’ve been tripped up is a joke. Personally I’d prefer if Gerrard didn’t dive but it’s only ever now and again - not every game like your lot. I can’t believe though that your argument is that it’s okay to cheat because other people time waste and take free kicks from the wrong place. Are you for real?
And you think that a good loser is worse than a bad loser? That tells me that you haven’t yet mastered the art of acting like champions. To give an analogy, that’s like a boxer using headbutts rather than his punching ability to win a fight. You don’t expect to see that from a champion. Maybe from a dirty journeyman who lacks ability but not from a classy champion.
Pete - I’ll accept your apology but my point regarding the community shield was aimed at the abuse dished out by STJ in his original article towards Liverpool fans. He should show Liverpool fans a bit more respect because they do always turn up to the party unlike other clubs - Chelsea being the other club in that example.
Laura
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:55 pm
I might be the only one, but I love the CC. I’ve been to every one Arsenal have played in under Wenger and have thoroughly enjoyed it. It is about raising money for charity and seeing how well your new team could be. I’ve seen some great CC matches, Arsenal 3 United 0 being one of the best (admittedly we lost the League that year but the excitement over that match was palpable).
As for Cardiff being a ‘hole’, that is unbelievable!! It is a stunning National stadium and for the 2005 Cup Final my £35 seats were pretty amazing.
the famous gcp
Oct 24, 2006 at 12:59 pm
I understand all of the anger and frustrations coming out of the bitter scousers, mancs, gooners, yids and leeds boys but lets be fair lads. We’ve been knocking on the door for the last ten years or so. Since hoddle took over we have been quality, 4 FA cup finals, league cup finals, cup winners cup finals, super cup final, charity shields, champs league semi’s, 2 league titles, top six every time in the league and countless big scalps along the way. Alot of this happened when we were millions in debt. Our supporters were different class in the seventies and eighties and remian so today - yes, it is annoying to get fans jumping on the band wagon, but then we’ve all got them. Personally, i would rebuild the shed to it’s former glories but you can only go one way, forward. Come on boy’s, stop moaning and look at your own clubs whilst we wallow in glory. We’ve waited years for this and it has been well worth the wait. Stand up for the champions, Chelsea Football Club. (carefree)
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:06 pm
Zach - I don’t know where you get a figure of £250m spent on chelsea’s team from? They have spent £146m and recouped £45m of that since Jose has been there still you’re only £150m out not much eh?
Oh and in that time Liverpool have spent £59m and recouped £11.5, Manure £55.1m spent £9.5m recouped, Arsenal £24m spent £17.5m recouped.
Chelsea have spent more than their rivals but they need to catch up with that previously spent by them too. Liverpool and Manure have spent a fair whack in the past 2 and a bit seasons only Arsenal come out favourably.
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:23 pm
Sammy Nelsons Pants - Your point about Chelsea fans having no respect falls down the minute you start slagging them off and calling them Chavs etc. Or is that being respectful in your eyes?
As for the Charity shield being an “historic fixture” you mean just like the League Cup used to be or are you going to try and pretend Arsenal put out thier best side every game for that too?
With the endless amount of close season tournaments that most of the top teams have several players in (including the African nations cup aswell as the European and World Cup) Do we need a season curtain opener any more? Would it not be better for the players to have an extra week or two to rest before the new season?
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:39 pm
I’d just like to add at this point that none of us can under value the ‘plastic’ fans. They may live hundreds of miles away, or even in a different country, but they still manage to get the shirt. Yeah I know that isn’t the same as the guy taking the time and effort to go to the match and support the team there and then - but in this day and age where money dictates, the guys buying the shirts have become just as important. I don’t think there’s many clubs who could say they earn more revenue from ticket sales than shirt sales. And at the end of the day, its the money that the fans invest, ‘plastic’ or not, that keep the teams going.
Just ask anyone from Real Madrid’s board why they still have Beckham on their books.
zach
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:43 pm
pete, i think that you have to look a bit closer at my comment before mouthing off…
i said that £250m has been pumped into the club, there were no specifics about player, not other club in the world could take the losses that your boys have in the last 2 years (and at a push i’d guess this year ain’t gonna show a profit!!!)
see, you are the problem as i said earlier… if you can celebrate the wins anyway then fair play, though i believe that i would feel they were slightly tainted if it was my team, then fair play, but you can’t and your trying to justify it… people at the top get shot down, thats what happens, accept it as a mark of achievement, but at least admit that is the money is the key factor in winning the titles…
Niekobe
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:43 pm
Hobbs- I wasn’t making the point that its ok to cheat. What I am trying to say is that you should condemn all forms of cheating not just focus on one type and one team. Condemn everyone that does it with the same ferocity. The skewed focus on Chelsea is pathetic.
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:49 pm
I must admit, Mourinho is one of those blokes who you know you shouldn’t like, but you just can’t help it - he wears his heart on his sleeve and he shows his passion. Sometimes he goes a bit overboard, but thats a trait of passionate people.
And if we’re talking about Chelsea’s history, I’ve long been am admirer of their fans who, even for a midweek trip will all make the effort to travel, admittedly it used to be as part of the headhunters, but they still made the effort. And I’ve always found their fans to be some of the most humourous away fans you’d ever meet, who can forget the “Ou Est Cantona” chants to Leeds after they Cantona moved to Man U.
Yes they are arrogant now, but the Champions have always had a swagger, no matter who they are.
My point about the plastic Liverpool fans was aimed at those who are bitter towards Chelsea fans for daring to win things, and who’s only arguement is to fall back on listing Liverpools acheivements (like past glories are a substitute for real footballing knowledge). I like Rich’s argument though, he’s managed to put the feeling into words better than anyone!
zach
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:49 pm
and to the famous gcp, your right, your fans were a different class in the 70’s and 80’s, unfortunately i think our thoughts may differ from there…. hopfully you have improved since then coz if so i pity you lot even more (or maybe that should be the fans that you kick off against and give that famous chelsea smile to…)
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Zach - Does your mouse not have a scroll bar (And i’ve cut and pasted this directly from your earlier post “having £250m pumped into the team, whilst not winning the cl..” ! Is it my eyes or does that say “team” not club?
I can cellebrate winning 2 titles back to back with Roman’s money buying what was needed to turn a decent core into winners I’ve watched the two ends of the spectrum at Chelsea and believe i’ve earned the right to be happy. I am just as happy watching the new Chelsea as I was watching the old Chelsea struggle to stay in the old 2nd div in the early 80’s. What I can’t take is other fans of the Likes of Liverpool and Man U pretending that having more Money than the rest of the teams at the time hasn’t been the factor to them being as successful as they are.
zach
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:54 pm
stj, i think it is fairly common to be able to get tickets for chelsea games easily and to see spaces in the ground (though i admit i don’t watch a lot of your games but i will use the community shield as an example) this is clearly not the case for liverpool so i’m not convinced by the power of your support, sure there will be a number of ardent fans but chelski aren’t at the level of liverpool, the mancs, newcastle… even pompey
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:54 pm
Rich - my point about plastic fans is not necessarily that they don’t got to the games, but that they use the clubs past glories as a personality substitute and its history as a substitute for real football knowledge.
As I’ve mentioned I’ve got a lot of time for true fans from any club, and have many friends who support Liverpool and who are proud of their club.
I’m not a Liverpool fan, but I have bought tickets to go to watch them play ocassionally, so I don’t buy the argument used by some fans locally that they’d go but tickets are hard to get hold of, especially as I don’t even live in the country and have to fly in to go to games.
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:56 pm
The Famous GCP - A most pointless rant that was. So you think Chelsea have all of a sudden won back to back titles cos you made it to a few finals over the last few years? “Knocking on the door?” Do me a favour….No-one remembers the runners up - apart from those who were runners up. Try coming up with a list half as long with trophies you’ve actually won since Hoddle took over. I doubt you’ll need much more than a postage stamp.
You’re sitting pretty right now and mouthing off and probably really enjoying it. Knock yourself out mate. You still don’t make any sense.
There’s quite a few clubs that operate whilst being millions in debt. You won’t need too many fingers on your hand to count how many are still in debt even though they’re owned by a billionaire.
You say you’re wallowing in glory? No mate. Success? Yes.
Glory. No.
You might get a bit of glory if you actually win the champions league this year - but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
zach
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:56 pm
pete - team counts as player wages and i made the point earlier about how this, as well as tranfer fees, need to be taken into account when looking at the finances of the “team”…
zach
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:58 pm
stj - believe me, i try and get tickets for ever game and whilst you might get tickets from the odd tout (danm them) it really ain’t easy to get tickets for anfield
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 1:58 pm
Zach - I’ve also bought “home” tickets at Chelsea when our away allocation has been full. Had a great laugh with the Chelsea fans in the pub facing Fulham Broadway tube before and after the game, almost missed my flight back home!
As I’ve said its possible to get tickets for all teams if you really want to, but some are harder than others.
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:06 pm
Mr. Juggler - that’s a fair point about the plastics. I’d agree with you about having a problem with people who almost ‘adopt’ a clubs history and shout about it when they’re on top. The true fans are still wearing the shirt when their team is not going well at all.
There’s no glory hunting there - just a staunch supporter.
I would however have to take issue with you saying ‘at least the headhunters made the effort’. However I’m not quite sure what to say cos I’m still laughing at how you’ve actually managed to make them sound like a bonus to your team!! Excellent bit of manouvering. I wouldn’t like to go into where their efforts were placed cos I think we all know - but nice try ; )
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:06 pm
Zach - must admit touts are a nightmare, especially at the world cup, but for Anfield, its easy getting tickets for mid-week games, or even cup games (including CL), unless its against one of the bigger clubs.
If its against a big Premiership rival or even a big Euroepean club, then its a nightmare, but I’ve still had some success by buying corporate tickets through promotions, they cost a few bob, but you get a meal and to meet the players or ex-players before or after the game.
the famous gcp
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Hey Rich…why don’t you do us all a favour…by the way 2 fa cups, 1 league cup, 1 european cup winners cup, 1 super cup, 2 charity shields, 2 titles (hope i havent missed anything!)- not sure if that will fit on a postage stamp? Anyway, back to wallowing in our glory. Cheers mate, keep up the good work (plum)
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Perhaps I should point out that I’m not a Chelsea fan either, but I do admire what they have acheived, even with the help of Abramovich’s millions - others have tried it before and failed (look at Newcastle or even the original tinkerman Ranieri), so Mourinho must be doing something right.
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:16 pm
The Famous GCP - Wallow in success. Not glory - success. And please do go back to it.
the famous gcp
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:20 pm
Sssh now Rich. No need to get angry. Your day will come.
Mark Hobbs
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:20 pm
Niekobe - I’m responding to an article saying Liverpool dislike Chelsea because of their spending power. I’m saying we don’t - it’s the lack of dignity (like the cheating) that get up our noses regarding Chelsea. There’s no skewed focus.
STJ - You contradict yourself again. You first said:
“I must admit, that most of the fans who do go to the game are not plastic, I was just referring to those who “support” them from the armchair.”
Now you’re saying:
“My point about the plastic Liverpool fans was aimed at those who are bitter towards Chelsea fans for daring to win things, and who’s only arguement is to fall back on listing Liverpools acheivements (like past glories are a substitute for real footballing knowledge).”
What you are really saying is that you will change your argument as it suits you. What’s your problem with Liverpool?
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:28 pm
Famous gcp….you couldn’t make me laugh much more if you wanted to. Not angry at all! Why? Cos we’ve already achieved what you have - a good few times over, and with a greater degree of style. So if wallowing in the fact you may get there one day too makes you feel better, I’m all for it.
That’s what keeps me smiling ; )
the famous gcp
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:31 pm
Youre not laughing mate - we are.
zach
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:34 pm
good comeback….
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:35 pm
I can assure you right here, right now, you are making me laugh! Bless ya.
Londis23
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:37 pm
Laura, I think sometimes Arsenal’s style flatters them a little. Passing quickly is all very well against lesser teams as they often get caught ball watching, but against the bigger teams and in Europe - where teams will defend deeper and in numbers, you need width etc. I think this is where Arsenal can over elaborate as they have no one to cross to and no one to head the ball.
I think the passing quickly route worked against Reading and Watford, but against Utd was it not counter attacking that got you a goal?
I think another reason Chelsea are disliked is that they don’t flatter people with their style of play. They are solid, often rely on counter attacking and sometimes the theatrics of Robben and Drogba et al to get them a break. They are at their best when teams come at them, but I have to agree it is funny to see their own fans shouting ‘attack, attack’ at home - which emphasises my point about the fact they are largely a counter attacking side.
the famous gcp
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:38 pm
Best you get yourself a sense of humour mate - maybe we could buy it for you?
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:41 pm
I think you need every penny you have to try n get the Champions League mate - save it. You won’t get it any other way.
zach
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:42 pm
cue another witty retort from the famous gcp
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Mark Hobbs - the armchair fan thing was just a dig at you, but you also fit into the other description of a plastic fan….
the famous gcp
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Cheers for the cue Zach, if i may be so bold as to say….no i’ll leave it. Sorry, but the entertainment’s over!!!
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 2:57 pm
All those that keep bamging on about the cheating of Robben and Droba oviously havn’t seen either of them play this season? They have both been booed at Stamford bridge for the needless Theatrics and are both (so far this season apart from one lapse I can remember from Robben) leaving that stuff out. Chelsea supporters are not fond of cheating and in a way put their own house in order by letting the players know it was unacceptable.
How many times did Arsenal do that with “opps ive fallen over again” Pires or Lundberg?, Man U with diver par excellance Ronaldo? or even Liverpool when Gerrard feels the need to take a dive?
You all seem to agree that you hate Chelsea because of the amount of dives etc yet to a man you
A: Are to pig headed to even admit that your teams have players that go down just as easily as Drogba and Robben used to!
B: Have done nothing to deter them form cheating even if your man enough to admit they do
Niekobe
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:00 pm
Well said Pete. Not to mention Eboue’s blatant dive in the champions league final last season which resulted in a free kick which resulted in a Sol Campbell Goal. The spotless Thiery Henry was crying as usual after the game complaining about the ref. He forgot to mention the small detail of how they got the lead in the first place.
Mark Hobbs
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:08 pm
STJ - What a waste of time you are. I at least expected some form of intelligent retort. But, to play at your level: I’m neither armchair or bitter but you are both! na na na na na!!!!!
Pete - El Hadji Diouf was run out of anfield because of his ‘Chelski-type’ behaviour.
Niekobe
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Hobbs- Why don’t you run Steven Gerrard out as well then? OH!! I Know! He is your MVP.
Niekobe
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:11 pm
Question for everybody: What do we think of Steven Gerrards form over the course of the season so far?
Mark Hobbs
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:13 pm
MVP? What are you American?
Gerrard doesn’t provoke, feign injury, or even dive that often (maybe once a season). You can’t compare him to Drogba, Robben or Diouf.
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:13 pm
Mark Hobbs - I reserve my intelligent retorts for intelligent posters….
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Pete and Niekobe - I think there’s not one team out there who can’t admit to having at least one of their players taking a dive every now and then. Chelsea are by no means the only culprits here. Diving is ugly and I believe is a direct result of foregin players AND managers over the years who have come to play on our shores.
I was particularly disappointed with Liverpool’s own manager not lending his support to Neil Warnocks request at a relatively recent Premiereship Managers meeting where he asked for such incidents to be dealt with by banning players who do it. I would also add that NO other manager supported him on this request. Personally I think banning the divers would soon make them think twice.
I have to say though, when you’re champions - regardless of what team you are - the world is looking at you. You are the face of English football. I just think Chelsea overcooked it quite a bit last season, a few of their bigger games had major decisions go their way thanks to the diving. No-one likes any kind of diving at all - but the rolling round like you’ve just had a testicle removed witha blunt knife and no aneasthetic, its too much. Interesting to see when a player gets injured for real they bareley roll at all.
Mark Hobbs
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:18 pm
STJ - So you’re saying that there have been no intelligent posters today, because I’ve not seen any intelligent retorts from you so far.
Niekobe
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:23 pm
Rich- Very sensible reply. I can accept your point and as Champions I do believe that we have a responsibility to lead by example. I just want the same punishment to be administered across the board. Anyone remember the World Cup with Thierry Henry clutching his face when he had received a shoulder charge?
the famous gcp
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:23 pm
I’m trying to think of the WORST EVER DIVE in football. Any suggestions? Pires against pompey was a classic (example only)!
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:27 pm
I think the diving arguement is an irrelevance, most clubs have divers, although are Rich points out, the fact the Chelsea are champions, and to be honest also because they have the talent not to need to dive, then attention is focused on them when they do it.
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:28 pm
GCP - Zakora’s had me in stitches it was so blatent and mistimed!
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Mark Hobbs - I think you like me, I’m good looking, intelligent and have a wonderful personality, so it must be true that opposites attract…..
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:34 pm
Mark Hobbs - The fans letting Diouf know is comendable (As IMO is Chelsea’s stance with Drogba and Robben)It should be the norm not the exception, People in glass houses and all that.
Rich - Re Neil Warnock he should get his own house in order before he starts on diving. His players kick anything that moves. Is this not also a form cheating under the rules of Football?,
People seem to accept it as part of the game though but not diving.
IMO both offences are as bad as each other. If you’re going to ban divers then you need to ban players or penolise teams that consistantly pick up several cards for committing bad fouls for longer than the mandatory games they give at present.
I’ve seen so many realy nasty fouls go unpunished by even a card this season and again the FA make no stand at all by coming out with the all time best cop out “As the ref dealt with it during the game our hands are tied”
Mark Hobbs
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:37 pm
STJ - It’s true - I do like fannies!!!!
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:40 pm
Mr Juggler - well done on the humour front. A very good post! Thought I’d gone into a pop up window for lonely hearts for a moment! ; )
Famous gcp - difficult question you posed. Rivaldo having the ball bounced off his knee and going down clutching his face is pure Hollywood for me - and the winner. I felt a whole multitude of emotions ranging from not knowing whether to laugh out loud or start throwing things at the tv in disgust. Now though I go with the laugh. Bet he never thought he’d look like such a tit in front of so many millions of people when he first wanted to become a footballer.
Does anyone else actually feel like shooting these divers when they go down like they’ve just been shot? First thing I often wish for is that someone actually gives them something to writhe around for. I know, I know - terribly irresponsible. But I bet we’d all feel better about it!
Pete
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:43 pm
GCP- The worst dive ever had to be when Rivaldo got hit in the midrift with the ball and went down holding his face in the world cup.
Greg Luganis (spelling) Dive when he split his head open on the edge of the diving board in the Olypics wasn’t a great dive either:-)
the famous gcp
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Cant think who it was, but some geezer playing for Southend or someone like that tried, to be clever by standing on the ball in a kind of showing off fashion - he fell off the ball and made out that he had been taken out by somebody…after rolling around clutching his face for a while he got up and carried on playing….shocking behaviour!
Niekobe
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:52 pm
At the start of the season I tipped liverpool to give us the hardest run for the title but I can hold my hand up and say that I was wrong. I guess they just don’t have the quality. Or is the problem their tinkering manager.
Sack the Juggler
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:53 pm
Mark Hobbs - touche (but does that mean you’re admitting to be a knob?) - anyway enough jolly banter, the worst dive has to this one of Andy Johnson’s http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/gallery/2005/05/10/AJNew2.jpg
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 3:53 pm
Pete - You have a point. Breaking the rules of the game should be punished regardless of the offence. However, certain rules when broken deserve harsher penalties. I’m not for one moment suggesting that if player ‘x’ kicks out at player ‘y’ they should go unpunished.
But diving is an element of the game nobody accepts as being part of the game apart from alot of players or managers from abroad who practically condone it. Yes there will be occasions when someone is out of order, is violent or inciting, and its up to the F.A. to sort them out. But by the same token, diving does not belong in our game. At all. More often than not the physical elements are dealt with, whether its there in the moment or retrospectively. But diving seems to go unpunished very often. The F.A. need to take the bull by the horns and get tougher on this. Of course, if the F.A. were to go down that route you’d really need FIFA to back it too. Can’t see that happening eh?
Rich
Oct 24, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Niekobe - I’m a Liverpool fan and at no point before the season started did I think this will be our season. We’re still a good stretch away from giving a credible challenge for the title I’d say. Rafa’s done a great job and for all the critics of his tinkering the guy has won us the Champions League and the F.A. Cup in as many seasons, so I don’t think its particularly fair to be gunning him down already.
I don’t think we’ll challenge for the title this year - but we are still incredibly early into this season. And that goes for any of the clubs. People are tipping Man Utd this season, but I still think Chelsea will do it. They’re just starting to break into a canter and get themselves on the go. They’ll definately get a run for their money this year, and I dare say it’ll be Man Utd who’ll do it, But Chelsea will still come through.
SammyNelsonsPants
Oct 24, 2006 at 8:41 pm
Pete -
I dont respect spitting, snarling chavs, no.
But then it becomes a chicken and egg situation, so I see your point. I do respect Liverpool and Charlton fans ( amongst others) and wouldnt insult them en masse. Make of that what